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Some Stuff I Think I Know

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  • Some Stuff I Think I Know

    So I just wanted to share some things I've observed about the game and some (hopefully) clever ways to use them. Some of it may be obvious to most. Some of it may not fit your play style. Some stuff others have pretty much said elsewhere on the forum, some I've said elsewhere in one way or another, a lot are new as far as I know. It's just some stuff for thought.

    So here's what I thought about stuff:

    1 - Time Gates Depend on your DPS Going In

    The HP of (and thus the gold gained from) enemies in time gates are determined by your DPS when you start the gate.
    Most people seem to be aware of this already, but just in case you're not, it can definitely change your time gate strategy.
    Ways I take advantage of this include:

    A - When starting a new star if you begin a time gate with only Tina awakened (0 DPS) then awaken Yukiko once it's started (possibly Ivana too depending your quests, spirits, skill gems, etc). The enemies (calibrated for only Tina) will be so weak compared to your now over powered DPS, they'll be defeated the instant they hit the screen. I find awakening two or three heroes at a time (depending on whether or not I level up them as well) is enough to get to the point that enemies die instantly. (I love to use the Timber Tornado power at this point if Mack is awake because I'm able to defeat so many enemies in such a short time.)

    B - It doesn't only have to be awakening heroes, leveling them can be enough. I usually try to set it up so that I always do my five current time gates one after another, I use a gold geyser across the first four and then save for last the time gate that I want to defeat the most enemies in (maybe to get the best streak or some such). After four gates under Gold Geyser (and a maxed Valnor spirit, please and thank you) I rack up a lot of gold and use it to level my heroes - 25 levels at a time on those over 200 to get an extra boost to the DPS if I can. Throw in a Deadly Aura and sometimes it can be as effective as when awakening heroes. I also, of course, save for my last gate the Piece-Hypno-Franken combo I'm sure anybody that even comes to the forums has already figured out; I've seen it mentioned many times in here.

    C - Talos, the spirit which increases DPS while clicking, is great for this. Since you can't awaken heroes forever, and don't always have the gold for a lot of leveling, Talos is a great way to always be able to boost your DPS once in a time gate, if you can summon it. It only take a few seconds to be considered inactive (as opposed to a minute to be considered idle) and for your DPS to drop to its inactive level. Then simply clicking away as you would once the gate begins will instantly increase your DPS.

    D - Similarly, the skill gem option on Dr. Beaker's planet which gives +50% DPS while a boost is active can be used if you activate a boost after entering a gate. Though Talos can already give +50% DPS by only level 5, boosts and even skill gems can be a little easier to get than essence and rolling the right spirit, especially early on, so this is another good option when your short on awakens and gold for levels.


    2 - Goldsplosion Values Depend on DPS

    The higher your DPS the more its worth. Get the Most out it.
    Level your heroes as high as possible before activating Goldsplosion. If you have the spirit Talos, activate it while clicking. Got the spirit Kellos (DPS while idle)? Go idle fist. Ivana's power War Song increases your DPS, further still with the Rousing March skill gem. Feed your cauldron. There are a lot of way to increase your DPS.
    There are things to note however:

    A - The spirit Naag, which increases gold collected while idle, does effect Goldplosion and may be more effective, depending on how leveled it is, than increasing your DPS. For myself, I have Naag at level 25 (+500% gold while idle) and even Talos giving +650% DPS and War Song giving +100% + %150 max, the direct gold boost from Naag is way more effective than the scaled boost from the increased DPS so it's more profitable for me to stay idle to activate Goldsplosion - though I can still use War Song just without the extra +150% DPS from Rousing March (I can also manually collect the gold for another 20% direct gold boost from the Finders Keepers skill gem).

    B - Because I was dumb enough to try it, let me save someone out there they're Deadly Aura - you can't use two boosts at a time so activating Goldsplosion will cancel Deadly Aura, making it useless in increasing your DPS for this purpose.

    Also, I would imagine . . .

    C - the same correlations would apply for the Jackpot boost; I haven't thoroughly checked, but it seems to hold.

    D - the spirit Accipter (which extends idle play bonuses for some seconds after you've begun clicking) would allow for Naag, Kello, Talos, War Song skill gem powers, and whatever-else-have-yous to work at the same time long enough to activate a Goldsplsion and get insane profit. [ Honestly, it didn't occur to me until typing this up that this spirit could be useful. I had always considered this spirit to be pretty useless - one in a handful that I planned to summon last if ever at all. Though I don't come across enough Goldsplosions this that would be the sole reason I would summon it, at least now I'll think about its uses (perhaps for time gates?) a little harder and it may be the first in the last handful I summon. Something to think on. ]


    3 - Essence: Time Distortion v. Hero Quests

    Let me start by saying that I'm currently at star 37, done at least 10 quests for every hero up through Domino (15 quests in many cases for the achievements), and I have more quest ingredients than I have the time or gems for. So some of this may seem way out of reach to some people or it might be embarrassingly trivial and obvious, I really don't know what's normal/average for people.

    As far as I have seen, all quests after the first ten cap at 24 hours or 720 gems. (I have yet to see a quest cost more than that, though my max is 21 quests on one hero, maybe it's more again at a 25 quests for some reason?)

    I've completed enough quests that my next quest (720 gems max) will get me 225 essence , while a Time Distortion (1500 gems) will apparently give me 285 essence.

    It would seem to me that completing a hero quest is clearly the better deal. Even if the quest did nothing but give essence (no DPS) it's still the better deal - two quests cost the same as one Time Distortion but give 50% more essence (almost). That the quest helps your DPS as well, to me, is just a bonus. The deal is even better for quests below the first ten; I recently unlocked Domino and completed the first quest for 3 gems and got 215 essence - that's a deal. Not to mention being able to start a quest before bed/work/life and cutting out a lot of gems making the essence even cheaper (or free eventually, but I'm impatient if I have gems to spare).

    Even if the cost does increase after the first 25 quests, that's at least 500 opportunities to get a way better deal than buying Time Distortions. This is how I've spent the vast majority of my gems so far.

    Another thought on the best essence deals - supercharge Mortal Comb-bat. Depending on how high a stage you are on, it may be a good deal to supercharge Mortal Comb-bat if you can catch it's timer when it only has a few seconds left (at less than 12s it costs 1 gem to recharge or 51 to supercharge). If you have Billy awake at stage 5, Comb-bat is only worth 1 essence or 10 at its best supercharge - not a deal. But for high enough stages, even the essence gained if Comb-bat is only doubled can be worth 50 gems, you'll have to decide based on your level if and when it's worth more to you.

    Also, I believe (with limited observation) that the essence value of the Time Distortion is based on how many times you've defeated the star devourer. It seems to go up 5 essence each time I've progressed, though it maybe different at lower/higher levels. Still, increasing the value of the Distortion isn't as simple as Goldsplosion. Considering you'll probably earn more essence throughout completing a star than what you'll gain waiting and saving the Distortion, I don't usually save the ones I get from the daily reward. But that's entirely up to you.


    4 - Backwards and Downwards

    When going to lower stages could help you:

    A - Before finishing my current play through and killing the star devourer, I like to go back and defeat the last boss three times in a row. It's a good way to grab essence from the highest boss before the heroes' powers reset when you awaken them on the next star. The first time I use the combo Piece-Nova-True Colors to warp the boss and completely recharge True Colors. The second time I use True Colors to warp the boss again. If I need to use other hero powers to help me defeat the boss I always make sure to use True Colors last this time, often just before the boss is defeated. That way I can use Frankenmorph as soon as the boss appears the third time, and warp the boss once more, using additional hero powers afterward as needed.

    I'll do this too on lower bosses if I happen to conveniently have all four powers available when I'm about to leave the game for a while and the ~ 3 hour recharge on True Colors isn't an issue. Just to pick up extra essence before I exit.

    B - The quantity and quality of item drops does not depend on the level of the enemy. And the Timber Tornado is worth as many enemies as you can defeat in its ~ 30s. I mentioned that time gates were good for this when you take advantage of setting the expected DPS low, but if you don't have any time gates open and/or the means to significantly boost your DPS once inside, you always have low level enemies available. You can go back as far as it takes to instantly defeat enemies when they appear or as far as you feel like, whatever comes first.



    Well that's everything I think I know, I hope there was some stuff you didn't.
    Last edited by AutumnDusk; July 9th, 2017, 02:33 PM.

  • #2
    Thanks for the information Autumn and I agree with most of this. However, my experience with #3-Essence: is different.

    At star 29, 500+ stages in, it seemed I hit a brick wall and could not proceed forward as easily. I kept running out of gold and my DPS was far below enemy HP. I changed my strategy and focused on Spirits. At the time, I was using gems only for resetting powers and speeding up quests. When I looked into purchasing the Time Distortion (1500 gems) it was at ~200+ essence and Mega Time Distortion (1500 gems) was at 3600+ essence.

    I play the Time Gates regularly for both the gold (using Gold Geyser boost, Valnor spirit, Finders Keepers, Gold Rush) and the gems, and most of the time I play (not watch) the prize critter ads (+25 gems). So instead of using gems on quests, I began purchasing Mega. This helped to reset my spirits and focus on the better ones.

    I continue to purchase the Mega which is now listed at 4800+ essence! and Time is at 325 essence. Increasing with each star?? I believe it is or can someone else please verify? Currently, my level is star 41, 400+ stages. I will check back on the Distortions when I start the next star. I do know Goldsplosion (1000 gems) in the store is relative to your current gold level.

    What about Weapon Enchantments? Continue to use Enchantments similar to Quests or better to throw elements into the cauldron?

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    • #3
      That's what I used my gems on Brecken, the mega distortion since it's worth so much more than the regular distortion for 1500 gems. I spend a lot of time in gates to get the gems and can level up to 15k of them between 4-7 days usually, depending on how fast the gate goes down. Also, I always use weapon enchantments, and well as doing quests whenever I can.

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      • #4
        Like I said, I have no idea how applicable Point 3 is to people, I don't really know what's normal. It could be that I've done more quests than the average person at my star level so the essence I get from quests is always more than half that of what I'd get from Time Distortion (assuming it's at least roughly dependent on your star level) making it the better deal at less than half the price. Other people that have done fewer quests wouldn't earn as much essence from completing one, so perhaps Time Distortion is the better deal, I wouldn't doubt it.

        Just checking for myself right now Time Distortion is 1500/310 = 4.8 gems/essence, Mega is 15000/4650 = 3.2 gems/essence, and quests are 720/240 = 3 gems/essence. So quests are best for me (by a small amount), it's apparently really dependent person to person. I guess Point 3 is more of an advocacy to explore your options. (If I supercharged Mortal Comb-bat right now, at worst I'd double it's current 54 essence value, that's an extra 54 essence for 51 gems, or < 1 gem/essence - if I catch it at the right time.)

        As for Enchantments vs throwing the ingredients in the cauldron, I've honestly never given that a thought. I always use them for enchantments, but I've never considered they could be worth more increasing the overall DPS instead of a hero's small portion. Hmmmm . . . no idea, I would imagine it to be very dependent on many factors, like which hero you're enchanting and if you have the spirit Coros.
        Last edited by AutumnDusk; July 9th, 2017, 08:57 PM.

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        • #5
          I typically fight the last boss before the star devourer a few times but I do Nova, True Colors, Piece, Mortal Comb-bat, Frankenmorph each time. I do really like how much essence I net that way. And then wait for the cool down. I'm curious what does Piece do to Nova??

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          • DMP
            DMP commented
            Editing a comment
            If you do Piece then Nova the next power you use will have no cooldown, so if you do pierce, nova, true colors, you can do true colors again then frankenmorph for a total of 3 warped bosses on the same level without any cool down wait, do this before advancing stars to get the most essence out of it
            Last edited by DMP; July 12th, 2017, 11:46 AM.

        • #6
          When you get towards the end of a star and the bosses get tougher, I have learned to save all my gems I get from time gates to use to supercharge the powers especially the powers that do 10%, 15% and 26% damage. If you are lucky enough to get a 10x you can one hit the boss.

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          • #7
            Thanks for writing this up! There were definitely a few points/tricks that I haven't thought of doing before. Is there an achievement beyond the 15 hero quests or is that the last one for that category?
            (∩`-´)⊃━☆゚.*・。゚
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            • AutumnDusk
              AutumnDusk commented
              Editing a comment
              Awesome, I'm glad it could be helpful.

              And 15 quests is the highest you can get an achievement for.

          • #8
            My new thoughts on the cheapest essence:
            (disclaimer: certain spirits needed at certain levels, not compatible with all play-styles)



            So to begin, I believe Time Distortions have a max value (someone higher correct me if I'm wrong) of

            TD - 1500gems / 380ess = 3.95 gems/ess
            Mega TD - 15000gems / 5700ess = 2.63 gems/ess

            and quests currently give me

            Q - 720gems / 608ess = 1.18 gems/ess

            which also means you should never buy a TD after your 273th quests (720g/273ess = 2.63g/ess) - at that point quests will only continue to be come a better and better deal than the best Mega TDs will ever be.



            So my new favorite way to consider the best deal for essence is very similar to what I shall call 4A, with some new twists.

            The first twist came when I had leveled my spirit Mirkos (increases essence from bosses - highly recommended if you don't have it, and entirely essential to my new method I'm about to divulge, don't continue reading without it) to the point that I go ~180 essence from the stage-995 boss. A recharge of Frankenmorph also costs me ~180 gems (the spirit Neireen is useful here, but not nearly as important as Mirkos). So the first twist is to use Piece-Nova-True Colors to warp the boss, then Frankenmorph to repeat True Colors a second time, then True Colors again, then recharge Frankenmorph to get essence from the boss four times instead of three. This adds 180 essence from the fourth go at the boss, for only an additional 180 gems for the recharge - a deal of ~1 gem/ess. (Values not applicable to all players.)

            The next twist came when I leveled Mirkos a little higher and an entire hero power reset became my best essence deal.
            So lets say I didn't have Neireen, I guesstimate that a Franken recharge will cost ~200 gems (instead of 180 gems). Also, assuming that I've done less than 273 quests, so MTDs are the better deal. At that point, any boss worth more than 114 essence would be the same deal as a MTD:

            (1000 (reset) + 200 (Franken recharge)) gems / (4 * 114) ess = 2.63 gems/ess

            So, if a boss is worth more than 114 essence, a total power reset is a better deal than MTDs. Whether or not it's better than quests is up to you. I need at least 250 essence from a boss for it to be a better deal (1180gems / 1000ess = 1.18 gems/ess). With Mirkos at level 45, I get 272 essence from the stage-995 boss, so it wins over even quest deals.

            The last twist is to thrown in Hilda's power, if you have her, to reduce the recharge cost of Franken. For myself, if use Piece-Nova-True Colors, then Franken, then Hilda, then True Colors, then recharge Franken (for only 121 gems now instead of 180), my deal is

            1121gems / (4* 272)ess = 1.03 gems/ess

            (Also, you recharge Timber Tornado with this - slide back to stage 994 to pick up some extra items if you so choose (mini twist)).



            Since others may not have hoarded 800+ orbs, tomes, and endorsements (as I did) before The Great Rare Item Drop Nerfing, some players may be in need of a new essence revenue stream, so I thought I'd share some thoughts again. Obviously everyone has play with their own numbers (explore your options) to find the best value, but in case this wasn't an option everyone had considered, I hope someone finds this addition helpful.



            Thoughts?
            Last edited by AutumnDusk; September 13th, 2017, 11:35 PM.

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            • Dr. Beaker
              Dr. Beaker commented
              Editing a comment
              Very cool post, and I love your small print disclaimer at the top

              I know I've covered this already, but when you said "which also means you should never buy a TD after your 273th quests" - this is exactly why the "Great Rare Item Drop Nerfing" had to happen. Hero Quests should never have outpaced Mega Time Distortions, especially this quickly for players.

              Beyond that, this is some very interesting and well thought out information.

            • AutumnDusk
              AutumnDusk commented
              Editing a comment
              Thank you! Though not well thought out enough - I forgot to include the additional essence contribution from Mortal Comb-bat when you recharge as well. With an extra 83 essence, my final total deal is 0.95 gems/ess - so less than one gem per essence, which is quite nice and still out paces quests, even for the unintended number I have.

          • #9
            One may consider that quests also increase your DPS, its not all about essence. I have Mirkos at level 124 presently, I get a lot of essence per star, I still do quests for the dps boosts, though will run out of glimmering orbs shortly not sure what to do at that point, I craft a lot of click pots to no avail, just tons of snacks!

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            • #10
              So forget all that. Here's the cheapest essence I've found:

              Did you know you could use True Colors to warp the boss, then repeat it with Frankenmorph, then recharge Frankenmorph and warp the boss again, and recharge and warp again, and recharge and . . . do you see? Here I was, always assuming it would only copy once, never spending the gems to see if you could just keep copying.

              So I have a higher Mirkos now and get 293 essence from the stage 995 boss. So I get 181 gems/ 293 ess = 0.62 gems/ess every time I just keep recharging Frankenmorph. Forget all that recharging-all-the-powers-for-1000-gems nonsense. (Especially to DMP with a level 124 Mirkos.) Just recharge Frankenmorph again and again. Of course use Piece-Nove-True, then Franken, then True Colors - to get the first three warps for free - then start recharging Frankenmorph multiple times. But after that, spending 1000 gems to recharge all powers only gets you three extra warps (using the previous combo), or one warp per ~333 gems. Recharging only Frankenmorph gets you one warp per ~200 gems (without Niereen) each time.

              I just recently tried a method in which I got myself up to the level 995 boss and leveled every hero as high as I could get, then reset my spirits. I dropped everything to pick up only the essentials - Thoran, Kellos, Mirkos, and Neireen (and a few others so I didn't waste too many gems on rerolls) - so that I could easily defeat the boss and get the most essence for the least gems. Then I dumped every amount of essence I had left (~18A essence, if I recall) onto Mirkos and ended up getting ~900 essence from the boss (I don't remember how high I leveled Mirkos). I recharged Frankenmorph and warped the boss again and again until I had burned through most of my gems and reset my spirits back (mostly) to what they were. Each recharge of Frankenmorph got me a deal of ~ 181 gems / 900 ess = 0.2 gems/ess - the best deal I've found thus far. Of course you have account for the gems for spirit resets so the more recharges you can buy between spirit resets, the better the overall deal will be - I dropped 30k gems on this profitable experiment.

              This is obviously highly dependent on spirits and everything else, as always, but, as always, it's just an option for thought.
              Last edited by AutumnDusk; October 5th, 2017, 10:54 AM.

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              • #11
                All the recharging and resetting essence stuff makes my head spin, lol!
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                • #12
                  Thank you for your information.

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                  • #13
                    The key to AutumnDusk's strategy - a thing I didn't realize for a very long time - is that you can click on a completed stage no. (in the upper right corner) to go back & repeat a stage indefinitely.

                    For essence farming, when you're almost to the Star Devourer go back & repeat the final boss just before him - that'll get you the most essence you can.

                    Side note: bosses only have the chance to come up already warped the first time you beat them. When you go back to repeat it, it will always be plain unless you're using Hanksy's power on it each time.

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